Oscar Gutiérrez and Jiseidô (Tokitsu-Ryû) in Spain
In the following interview, Oscar Gutierrez - Director of the Jiseidô school in Spain and pupil of the founder of this martial art, Kenji Tokitsu Sensei (see issues 285 and 286 of our magazine El Budoka) - explains his method and his own particular view of martial arts.
By David Leonardo Bárcena
Could you tell us a little about your beginnings and achievements in the martial arts?
Well actually, I wouldn't like to begin this interview talking about my own rank or titles, since those are things that belong to another period. What I'd much rather do is talk about the present. But since you ask, I will give you a short summary of the path I've taken until today. Back in 1970, in Paris where I grew up, my brother signed me up at a judo club that also had a karate section. One day I saw a karate training session and was so impressed that the following year, in 1971, I began taking karate lessons with Master Murakami in the Shotokai-Ryû school. In 1977 I moved to Santander, where I began to teach classes and compete in championships. During that period, I began to follow the practice of the Shotokan-Ryû school. Later, in 1990, I began to be interested in studying other martial arts, and in 1993 met Kenji Tokitsu Sensei and became his pupil.
What caused you to drop Shotokan after so many years?
Very simple. In my opinion, Shotokan and karate are not lifelong disciplines.
I'll try to summarise why.
As a practitioner first of Shotokai and later of Shotokan karate, and as a person who has worked with all the branches of the Federation as a combatant, as a trainer, as a director, I have always encountered problems. Technical problems, physical problems, problems with the katas, with combat, the manner of trainingâ?¦, but that would take too long to explain.
And then, unfortunately, there is the problem of the organisations. For them, karate is mainly an economic and political concern. The essence of the art, which is the development of the human being through its practice, is entirely overlooked. If you have a good rank or a title from such and such a federation or organisation, they will show your value. The authenticity of the art cannot be subject to organisational problems. To achieve true quality in karate, obstacles like these have to be overcome. But from what I can see, while organisations and federations accumulate titles, not much progress is being made in the technical and human aspects of karate.
Do you mean concerning both quality and lifelong practice?
That's where the doubt lies, the physical and mental doubt that has caused so many of us practitioners to abandon karate. Human beings change. From childhood to old age it's impossible to keep on doing the same thing changing only the intensity of practice and the height of different positions. We have to take this seriously, don't we?
So many dôjos' showcases are full of cups and medals commemorating past glories, but to my mind, the important thing is what you are at the present moment of life. All of us can become a relic of the past, but then we're not speaking of a martial art.
It seems obvious that karate is now a mere sport for young people and that the lifelong practice of unarmed combat, which was one of its characteristics, has become just a hope or dream. As for me, the truth is that I practice every day and have the same enthusiasm, or more, as when I first began. So I'm very happy not to belong to the herd.
How did you encounter the Tokitsu-Ryû or Jiseidô?
When you're not satisfied with what you're doing, you usually start looking around. I was no longer finding meaning in my practice and that caused me to look into other arts. I studied and practiced Aikido, Yoga, Kung fu, and Chinese arts such as Yi Chuan, Baji Chuan, Tai Chi Chuan and so forth. But still at bottom, I continued to be dissatisfied. I remained linked to the world of karate and belonged to a European karate academy. In 1993 I went to Paris to a multi-style course taught at that academy. One of the methods presented was the Tokitsu-Ryû of Kenji Tokitsu. I was immediately hooked. I had found a method that synthesised everything I'd been searching for over the years without abandoning my karate practice. That same year, my good friend Alain Stoll, a pupil of master Tokitsu's, came to Santander to present the method. That was the real starting point of this path I have taken.
What is Jiseidô?
Very simply, it's the fusion of the internal with the external, the ancient with the modern, Ying with Yang.
I usually explain the fundamentals of Jiseidô practice by evoking a triangle where the points are disciplines and elements that enrich the practitioner, who is in the centre. I call attention to the difficulty of this school, since it is essential to be very consistent and honest with oneself and to think deeply about one's practice intellectually. As I tell my pupils and students, do not believe something just because I say so. It is important to experience and reflect on what is said and taught. Many who come to the school already have a certain degree of technique, but to understand our objectives it's also necessary to go step by step, in successive phases, and refrain from being too impetuous. By going slowly, we try to get students to think deeply on what this method actually proposes, in addition to making comparisons with whatever may have been practiced before. Returning to the triangle and the elements at each point, the disciplines making up the practice of the JISEID� school are:
KARATE,
TAI CHI CHUAN, QI GONG (Kikô)
DA CHENG CHUAN (YI CHUAN),
KENJUSU (classic Japanese sword art)
The profound synthesis of these methods is what characterises the school. However, depending on their personality and what they are looking for, students may focus more on one of the disciplines, but be enriched by the methodological contribution of the others. So, for example, you might practice mainly Tai Chi or karate, but derive benefit from what the other disciplines can teach you concerning technique and the cultivation of energy. The working elements of each method don't create a juxtaposition of the disciplines, but instead actually form a whole.
The basis of most students has been the karate-do. However, after several years, the school now has an increasing number of persons whose training has been acquired only in the Jiseidô. I consider this diversity of starting points as very positive.
The most important thing is for the practitioner to know whether he wishes to change his pathway towards the practice of Budô, and to be very conscious of what he seeks through his practice. By opening up such a space of practice we will be able to build a Martial Art that can be pursued throughout our entire lifetime. That is what Jiseidô is.
Could you tell us something about the creator of the system, Kenji Tokitsu Sensei?
Kenji Tokitsu Sensei is above all a researcher. He holds a doctorate in sociology and in Chinese and Japanese language and civilisation. This background has enabled him to investigate the ancient martial arts, many of which have been forgotten, and to discover things of vital importance about them. He has spent over 30 years on this research, and his method is the result.
He is the master from whom I learn everything necessary in order to forge ahead. It is not for me to say whether or not he is the best master, and I wouldn't think of passing such a judgement, but I can say with all assurance that he is undoubtedly one of the best martial artists of our time.
In your martial art, lifelong practice and efficiency over time are very important. Could you explain why?
Of course they are important. I began to study karate at a very young age with the conviction that I was practicing the best of all systems. But before reaching the age of 30, I had had various injuries due to practice. Watching and observing fellow trainees older than I made me realise that just because they had been training since they were young did not mean that they enjoyed good physical condition. Many of them, huge numbers in fact, have abandoned karate. Many older karate practitioners - those few who still train - cannot claim to be in better condition now than when they were 20 years old. This should make us stop and think about karate practice, shouldn't it?
For an art to be lifelong, it must be able to respond to the needs of each age. Historically, the aim of the martial arts was longevity and efficiency. To attain such objectives, it is necessary to have a good method, something which many contemporary martial arts have lost. In the Jiseidô, we usel KIK� (Qi gong) exercises to strengthen and cultivate KI, and we use other methods and breathing exercises to ensure lifelong well-being and vitality. Just as the mind does, the body evolves with age. An art must evolve to meet all the different needs of age and of course of combat.
In your school, great importance is given to efficiency and coherence in combat. You teach close combat, with contact and protective gear. Is that necessary?
I'll answer with another question. How can we tell if our defences and attacks are efficient? Shall I give you the answer?
Please do.
We can only find out by seeing whether our techniques enable us to touch the adversary. That's why we use the helmet and guards - so we can touch without danger of injury. I don't agree with the claim that the really difficult thing is to stay a few centimetres away. I think this way because of experience. We use protective gear to develop our technical capacities. Many karate practitioners who have had no experience with contact combat come to my courses and, because of their habitual reflexes, are incapable of executing coherent, objective combat. Even with protective gear there is impact. When you receive a thrust, the helmet protects you from injury but not from the impact, which can give rise to a fear response that has to be overcome. For this reason, from the very beginning, we lay great stress on touching with moderation. To my way of thinking, practice without combat doesn't enable us to progress. That's why we study close combat.
Returning to your question and the importance of efficiency, our criteria are simple and clear. We practice an unarmed martial art, mainly an art of percussion combat, so the method must ensure efficiency. There are two sides to efficiency though: immediacy and the long term. Whatever technique is being executed, it must be quickly applicable and effective. Technical capacity should be obtained in just a few years. But technical capacity must increase and develop much more over time. So efficiency and effectiveness also imply the duration of health and well-being. Therefore, a good method must ensure efficient technique and an energy principle, as the basis of longevity.
Since according to your school health and martial arts go hand in hand, let's talk about health. Your school teaches the Qi gong method of Dr. Yayama. Could you tell us a little about this system?
The Kikô or Qi Gong method of Dr. Yayama consists mainly of activating and then correcting the spinal column, strengthening the back muscles and activating the nervous system. To provide this base, we have the animal katas and Shoshuten exercises (small circuit in the microcosmic orbit). In 1995 Tokitsu Sensei incorporated Kikô into his method as a result of a re-encounter with Dr. Yayama, a surgeon and oncologist (Western medicine) who has studied traditional Chinese medicine and perfected his own method of Qi Gong. He is a 5th dan karate practitioner in Goju-ryû and keenly interested in the martial arts, particularly karate and Tai Chi Chuan. He was developing the possibility of applying his method to the martial arts, and Tokitsu Sensei took this up as a result of that encounter. This is how technique and energy came to be seen as parallel in our school. The Yayama method allows this conjugation.
What weight is given to Tai Chi Chuan in your martial art?
Tai Chi Chuan is one of the key pillars of our art. Tai Chi Chuan is a twofold, dual practice.
I'll explain that. Most often, Tai Chi Chuan is practiced for well-being - to a certain extent like Qi Gong, which is used for therapeutic purposes due to its motions - but leaving aside the martial aspect of Tai Chi. I teach both aspects of Tai Chi Chuan because it affords the possibility of working on energy and technique at the same time. Tai Chi is best known for its smooth, flowing, slow, relaxed movements and the impression it gives of well-being, but underneath there is tension, explosiveness, speed, strength, force, and the specific technical precision required for combat. This is what enables me to develop health and efficiency. The truth is that my pupils have found value in this and, above all, they've seen how their Ki has developed and increased qualitatively, even though many are middle aged or beyond. From my standpoint and experience, I can honestly say that Tai Chi Chuan is a superior method.
We mainly work on two forms of Tai Chi Chuan, traditional forms that have been revised and modified according to the school's criteria regarding technical and energy issues. These are the forms of the Authentic Synthesis (Zheng Zhong Tai Chi Chuan) and of Chen.
Where in Spain can we practice Jiseidô?
The main nucleus is on the north coast, in Cantabria and Vizcaya. Bilbao and Santander alone account for 90% of our practitioners. But Jiseidô also has units in Catalonia, Madrid and various other places around the country. We are not a school with many practitioners, but in any case we can respond to any request. For example, next February I'll be going to Catalonia, probably Barcelona, to present the Jiseidô method..
What is your opinion of martial arts today?
A hard question - nice but also difficult to answer.
I have little hope for martial arts. They fail to live up to the needs and answer the demands that many practitioners are posing. Take Spanish karate. If it is the world champion in kumite and katas, it is mostly because of the large number of practitioners who don't compete, but who do pay their membership fees. This makes it possible to finance the national team. Fees make economic activity possible, but what do people who don't compete receive in exchange? Institutions lay down a single law. We're talking about a SPORT with a martial origin, but not about a martial art. The saddest thing is that Tai Chi and Chinese martial arts are following this same course. They want to become Olympic sports, and we all know what lies behind the Olympic movement.
The tradition of martial arts is very rich but instead of delving into the sources, we consign them to the attic as relics of the past, where little by little they are forgotten and lost. Martial arts leaders and organisers should study the possibility of having youngsters, teenagers, adults, women and older people practice, but applying a comprehensive vision that allows for change and evolution, rather than the merely competitive focus of today.
Would you like to add anything else?
Yes, I'd like to thank your magazine (El Budoka) for its interest and for allowing space to make our school a little better known.
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