Interviews with Kenji Tokitsu Sensei
Part 5. This is the fifth and last in a series of interviews granted by Kenji Tokitsu-sensei to the French magazine Arts Martiaux.
Have you refused to reconstruct the classical Naihanchi?
No, I haven't been able to reconstruct the historical Naihanchi. I've developed my own personal Naihanchi based on the technical information I've been able to find, but this kata is equally fertile and effective as a training and teaching model.
Have you reconstructed other forms of rinto-kata?
yes.
Which ones? How did you go about it?
To date, I have reconstructed rinto-kata based on Bassai, Chinto, Kushanku, Jion and Gojushiho. This is how I went about it. First I studied several versions of the same kata. For example, I have gathered information on about ten versions of Gojushiho. By studying these katas I've been able to analyse each technical sequence.
This allowed me to see that there are differences in the way of executing a single technique, which in turn enabled me to grasp the general meaning and purpose of the technique. For example, in one version of a kata there may be passages that are obscure because they are not explicit, whereas in another, these passages are manifested much more clearly.
I make general comparisons between these katas. By doing so, the meaning and objective associated with each gesture become much clearer. Next I make a comparison to find a version that is the most rational and correct for meeting the objective to be obtained by this technique. In this way, I select one by one the most rational techniques from among the different versions.
Then I apply each of these techniques in free combat with different persons, large, medium and small. I find that some gestures are indispensable for executing each technique. The moment I add gestures or a movement, I adjust the angle of the body. In this way, by accumulating experience from these free combats, I discover small complementary elements that make the technique more realistic.
So, once the general scheme of a kata becomes clear and concrete, I spend several more months using it and examining it. If I see that after this testing period there is nothing left to be changed, I consider that the job is finished.
It is a personal search based on my study of the historical katas. To my mind, the rinto-kata are the most worthwhile, the most rational and the most efficient - in short, the best katas that I have encountered to date for my own personal training and on which to base my teaching. I've arrived at them in part thanks to my comparative study of 250 versions of the katas. As a researcher, I have been able to accumulate knowledge on the katas and obtain an objective, relative view of karate. As a practitioner, I've been able to advance in the elaboration of my method.
So far you've spoken of karate. If I've understood properly, you've employed the same method in studying tai chi Chuan, haven't you?
Yes. As I explained earlier, tai chi Chuan is mostly practiced for health and well-being, due to its emphasis on energy or qi gong (kikô) through the gestures. This is a positive aspect of tai chi, but in principle I am interested in the martial aspect of tai chi Chuan. The tao lu (katas) of tai chi are long, and therefore I have not been able to master so many. For tai chi Chen I have learned four different versions and from them I've chosen the ones that suit me best. I have examined them from the first to the last movement from the stand point of combat technique. In tai chi there are many grappling and throwing techniques, but I have analysed all the sequences mainly from the point of view of percussion technique. I have applied the same system as with the katas of karate - that is, their application in free combat.
At the same time, I have examined the movements in relation to the exercise of kikô (qi gong), to ensure that they are efficient energy-wise.
How do you view energy efficiency and the relation between kikô (qi gong) and dynamic gestures?
Mainly, I apply the principles underlying the kikô method of Dr. Yayama, which consists of activating and then correcting the spinal column and strengthening the back muscles as the basis of Shoshuten (small microcosmic circuit) exercise. After accidents and injuries suffered during karate training, I became aware that unless I started practicing some other way, I would not be able to continue after the age of 50. This led me to study kikô (qi gong) starting about 20 years ago. I have become familiar with numerous methods. In 1996 I re-encountered Dr. Yayama and learned his method. He is a surgeon and oncologist trained in Western medicine, but at the same time he has studied traditional Chinese medicine and perfected his own method of kikô. By applying his method, he has cured and healed several thousand patients to date, which proves the effectiveness and safety of his method. In Kyushu, in the south of Japan, I have on several occasions attended the meeting of teachers of his method. All of them are former patients who have been healed through exercise. Dr. Yayama is a 5th dan karateka in Goju-ryû and is very interested in the martial arts, particularly karate and tai chi Chuan. He developed the possibility of applying his method to martial art, and this is what I have learned and incorporated into the exercise of tai chi. This, then, is the way I have examined tai chi from the standpoint of technique and energy.
You have examined the validity of techniques employing them in free combat. Is it really necessary at your level to train regularly in free combat, and is it still as possible at your age? Because I believe you are now 52 years old, aren't you? How and in what form do you train in free combat?
It is true that I am now 52, so I am still young and have a very long road ahead of me. I feel I am at the starting point of a new stage. With my method, I plan to progress in combat until at least the age of 70. I see this specifically. I can't foresee very clearly what will happen after the age of 70, but I think that in a few years, the outlook will be lengthened. I am convinced that regular exercise in free combat is indispensable during the entire time that one practices a martial art. If I stop combat, my training will be gymnastics in a martial style, but not a martial art.
I have been practicing free combat for a long time, but during my first five years of karate, training focused on the base techniques. Then I began to practice free combat regularly, but the content and quality of practice have changed a great deal. For the first fifteen years, my arms and shins were permanently covered in black and blue. Then, in the early 1980s, I began to study taiki-ken and the internal method. The bruises began to disappear. In taiki-ken, blows are delivered directly, but I applied this method in classical karate, where blows to the face are controlled. Combat interested me much more. So I practiced it more intensely, but after a few years I realised that I no longer had any bruises.
The method and form of combat have changed. From the beginning of the 1990s, after studying yi chuan, the original method of taiki-ken, I began to train in contact combat. Until then I had practiced combat with controlled blows - what is known as sundomé.
Even in the sundome method, blows are frequently delivered to the body, but not to the face. But if you do strike the face, the nature of combat is transformed completely. Until then, I hadn't realised such an evident fact. I have developed different methods of practice in order to make it possible to train more realistically, always avoiding injury. In the beginning, we would practice open-handed combat with strikes at the face, but this was not practical and there were injuries. I tried over ten kinds of face guards and even made two myself four years ago. From them I have found one that seems to me to be practical and use it for my own training and in my courses.
So do you practice combat without protections?
No. Combat is fundamentally without protection, but I use guards to develop technical capacities. I do not conceive of combat in a martial system with protections. The idea and the meaning are very different here. With regard to combat, I'll tell you the things that come to mind. Forgive me if it seems for the moment that I'm straying from the point.
Please go ahead.
Jigoro Kano,the founder of judo, wrote the following:
“From the martial point of view, a judoka must be able to dodge and block any attack with the fists or feet, moving freely, lightly and swiftly. It should be noted that randori, where you grab the sleeve or neck of the adversary's kimono, is a training model for beginners”. Later he also said:
“If we think of the possibility of striking the adversary in judo, the combat position must be close to that of boxing.”
Surprising, isn't it? I wonder how today's judokas interpret this statement by the founder of judo.
What is certain is that judokas at the beginning of the early kodokan knew how to judge distance, timing and the angle of attack depending on the adversary, and were able to move swiftly and lightly. The nature of judo was different from what it is today.
Right.
So, to continue, you know that Gracie Jiu-jitsu derives from ancient judo. Back in 1905, a young practitioner named Mitsuyo Maeda travelled to the USA, to Europe and then to Brazil, where he settled down. In 1916 Carlos Gracie became his pupil. He is the older brother of Helio Gracie, father of Rickson and Royce. Carlos and his brothers moved to Rio in 1925 and set up the “Gracie Jiu-jitsu Academy”. Therefore, Maeda's judo was the origin of Gracie Jiu-jitsu.
M. Maeda, who stood 5 feet four inches tall and weighed 70 kilos, fought against boxers and heavy-weight wrestlers and always won employing the original judo technique. His combat position would have been the one described by J. Kano. His achievement is clear: “a thousand-time winner in his lifetime”. Gracie Jiu-jitsu is a development of the judo of Mitsuyo Maeda.
Studying the life of this master is fascinating for anyone who seriously practices a martial art. He was a disciple of J. Kano's, but he never fought against boxers and wrestlers in Japan. In the course of his numerous matches, he applied judo technique and developed his own method based on his cumulative experience. He wrote the following:
“We should go back to beginning training with blows. A judoka should absolutely train in delivering blows and developing grappling techniques. After obtaining 1st dan at the end of 3 or 4 years, a judoka should train in striking with the fists and feet. On this point I have developed a light head guard and rubber boxing gloves that enable you to use your fingers.”
Now I'd like to go back to what we were talking about.
M. Maeda, a judoka, wrote this 80 years ago because he had actually fought matches where real blows were struck. To train well in this, he needed to use a safety helmet. I think that most karatekas fail to feel such a need, because contrary to what is believed, they don't do combat exercises striking real blows. I think that if you want to practice percussion combat, you should train in contact combat, particularly to the face. But if you do, you need protection. Controlled combat, sundome, is interesting but I think and know from experience that it is insufficient. Contact combat also requires a certain kind of control, because you train modulating the form of impact. Through combat exercises, I have learned and discovered many things that for me are essential. Above all, I have developed a great deal since a year ago.
In the 19th century, Japanese sword technique evolved and progressed thanks to the use of protective armour. M. Maeda, a judoka, invented a helmet in order to develop boxing technique. I think it would be natural for a karateka to confront this problem. However, we have to admit that there are also times when use of a helmet and gloves presents problems. But if we don't forget that combat is fundamentally without protection, I think we can find the way to use such gear effectively.
There are certain schools where people train in uncontrolled combat without using any protection. What do you think of this method?
I consider it entirely respectable. It especially enables you to strengthen your spirit and perception of combat. I have practiced it myself at times, and I've ended up applying my present method using a helmet and a pair of light gloves.
The problems with the method of uncontrolled combat without protective gear is that matches cannot be held frequently, so technical development is limited. In yi chuan, for example, some practitioners use safety gear and others do not. But of those who do not, how many regularly engage in matches? I think that very few. The reason is simple. Combat exercises in these conditions necessarily produces injuries, which often are serious. No one likes that.
Most people are happy to practice without combat, and some even think that they are so powerful that they would kill their adversary in a match. Three years ago a Chinese friend visited me who practiced yi chuan. With my pupils, we did the exercises, but when it came to training with blows, he said he couldn't because it was too dangerous, because he was too powerful. We insisted and he agreed to do it if we wore heavy protection. In his open-hand strikes, the blows were so mild that we took off the protection. His blows just weren't that strong.
But be careful. There are practitioners who are really very powerful. I only mean to say that if you don't do combat or tuishou exercises with real physical contact, you run the risk of falling into an illusion and megalomania. The yi chuan method was originally contrary to this kind of exaggeration. Wang Xiangzhai wrote clearly that the mode of exercise must be corrected through regular tests. Somehow, people must progress by bringing themselves up to date. The method of Wang Xiangzhai seemed simple and clear, but it is very difficult to put it entirely into practice. It has to be admitted that it is a very elitist method. On the other hand, though, all authentic martial arts methods are to my mind very elitist. Most people can practice them only partially. The same thing happens with tai chi Chuan, which most people practice for reasons of health and well-being only.
People who practice yi chuan talk a lot about explosive force, but I see that few people actually do combat training. For many, it is left until later, relegated to the distant future. It is an interesting sort of psychological game that we can find in martial arts. People cling to a method or the image of a master of recognised fame, because it is something they can identify with.
That's right.
Let's go back to the difficulty of uncontrolled combat without protection. I recently read a Japanese book on taiki-ken. As it was a published text, I think that quoting it here won't raise problems. Here are some of the passages I found interesting.
“One day I was riding with Master Sawai in a taxi. Suddenly he said, â??Do you know why my pupils get along so badly with each other? I don't understand itâ?¦'
“I didn't answer, since the reason seemed clear to me. In taiki-ken combat, the face is struck not only with the open hand, but also with the fist. Even the genitals and the eyes are attacked. Master Sawai had his students engage in cruel matches without being concerned about the blood they shed, which was not normal since there was no emotional divide of resentment or hatred among his pupils. I remember the day I attended taiki-ken matches for the first time. I was shocked by the cruelty of the encounters, because an adversary delivered numerous hard blows directly to the face of the other. Finally, he'd make him fall to the ground and continue kicking him in the face and stomach. I was surprised that no-one was killed. The mode of combat has been pacified somewhat since 1983. Mr. A., a pupil of Master Sawai's, was nicknamed by those who knew him well â??small glove of taiki-ken', because he was extraordinary in combat, but he had numerous bruises on his face, his chin was sliced open twice and he almost lost his left ear. Every Saturday evening he would look up at the sky praying that rain would fall the next morning, because training took place each Sunday morning in the gardenâ?¦”.
Even for him, who was considered extraordinary in combat, having training matches once a week was hard and the psychological pressure overwhelming. You can't engage in taiki-ken type combat every day. Even once a week is a lot. You could certainly strengthen your fighting spirit and sharpen your sense of combat, but this model is not practical for most people. A small error could entail serious consequences. Only rarely can you try to apply a half-mastered technique, which slows down development.
If you use a protective helmet, you can face combat every day of the week, which happens to me frequently. The protection enables you to run certain risks when you are trying to perfect new techniques that you still haven't mastered sufficiently.
Even wearing protection, when you receive a blow it hurts, doesn't it?
Of course it does. You can't receive many blows. The helmet protects you from an injury caused by the blow, but not from the impact, which can provoke a response of fear that has to be mastered. That is why, from the beginning, I insist on learning to control the impact when hitting.
Don't the blows cause problems in the cervical vertebrae?
You have to do exercises designed to strengthen the neck muscles. In judo, no one will practice throwing techniques with someone who has not yet learned how to fall. The technique for falling properly on the ground has to be learned prior to judo combat exercise. Likewise, for contact combat, you have to train from the beginning paying special attention to strengthening the back of the neck.
Sometimes karatekas trained in the non-contact mode of combat come to train at my dojo. Despite prior warnings, because of their normal reflexes, they tend to go too strong and almost all of them complain about neck pain afterwards. It is a shame, because they could easily avoid this type of problem.
So you regularly practice combat?
Yes, at least five times a week, for between 30 to 60 minutes a day. When I teach a week-end seminar, it can amount to as much as seven days a week. I do so because it is truly very interesting and because, to be frank, I really enjoy it.
I would like to hear your deepest thoughts about martial arts in general. You have spoken of the presentation or hyoen kata. It is a demonstrative or demonstration kata. Today there are not only katas, but entire martial arts that are demonstrational, and now constitute a true show. It is not only a phenomenon about which we can agree or disagree. It is a fact that we can't ignore or run away from. How do you analyse this phenomenon in relation to mass practice and in relation to research on quality in the martial arts?
As I explained earlier with the example of Okinawa karate at the beginning of the twentieth century, public diffusion of the martial arts requires demonstration performances which tend to become shows. Spectator events are a social need. So we can consider that martial arts spectacles are a new genre of modern show business that meets the demand of a certain kind of public.
But within this milieu, whether for show purposes or not, the martial arts form a curious amalgam. The organisers of martial spectacles are frequently confused with masters of martial arts. The public has only a slight opportunity to understand the true meaning of a martial art. The martial arts seem easy as a kind of performance. People get the impression that they are accessible and understandable, within the reach of all. In reality, the stronger this impression, the further you are from true martial art.
The other day I had occasion to speak with a Japanese karate master. We talked about precisely this question. He said:
“I think that in all the arts, there is a common aesthetic spectacle. The position and stance of karate must be straight and vertical, as in ballet, in Japanese dance and in other forms of aesthetic expression.”
I said:
“I disagree. I think that it is precisely because of this type of discourse that karate has been degraded. When you talk about a straight or vertical stance, there is a tendency to associate this with a moral image. This seems to be universally valid but is in fact a deception. I perfectly recognise the aesthetic appeal of ballet and Japanese dance, but there are other types of aesthetic criteria in different cultures. The aesthetics of western ballet is not a universal criterion. As you know, in the classical karate of Okinawa, the position of the body was frequently angled to one side or forward, which came about because of a technical need. When karate was introduced to the main island of Japan, the position was made straight and vertical exactly because of the Japanese aesthetic criterion, which was different from that of the island of Okinawa. If because of this change there had been an improvement in technical quality, we would have to say that it was indeed true progress. But in reality, there was a considerable loss from the standpoint of technical efficiency, causing me to feel that this change was for the worse. For this reason I disagree with you.”
We discussed different things and I appreciate this Japanese master because we were able to disagree without getting angry. In most cases, it is impossible to challenge the thinking of a Japanese martial arts master without irritating him. In this field, discussion is frequently a monologue. You are obliged to listen even to stupid thinking if you don't wish to irritate the master. You have some experience of this, I imagine. An exchange of ideas is nearly impossible. With this master we were able to discuss, but we haven't made exchanges.
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